tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2156944512466583246.post633900118765185232..comments2024-03-18T18:17:34.333+01:00Comments on Theropoda: Saltriovenator e la corsa agli armamenti giurassiciUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2156944512466583246.post-88660298016033414982019-01-07T13:09:08.785+01:002019-01-07T13:09:08.785+01:00Carnotaurines are clearly a vestigial stage. I don...Carnotaurines are clearly a vestigial stage. I don't like such ad hoc display hypothesis. Nothing prevents forelimb retention in carnotaurines to be just a by-product of developmental factor (for example, the fact that the scapulocoracoid is kept well-developed, probably as axial muscle anchor site).<br />We neew more basal abelisauroids and ceratosaurians to show the intermediate stages Andrea Cauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10855060597677361866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2156944512466583246.post-13539896978968791572019-01-07T02:42:53.404+01:002019-01-07T02:42:53.404+01:00Abelisaurs like carnotaurines could have dispensed...Abelisaurs like carnotaurines could have dispensed with using their forelimbs for predation - might have solely retained a display function (as Delcourt suggested). But unimpressive as ornaments, given their small size in carnotaurines. ("Display function" is often a position of last resort when no other function can be inferred.)<br /><br />Re dromaeosaurids - I wouldn't have Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17837037454015036429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2156944512466583246.post-91222961721381754662019-01-04T16:18:19.432+01:002019-01-04T16:18:19.432+01:00Tyrannosaurids are the extreme end of this trend.
...Tyrannosaurids are the extreme end of this trend.<br />The enigma is abelisauroids, which do not fit this model (and in fact, this enigma is mentioned at the very last sentence of our Saltriovenator paper).<br /><br />Eudromaeosaurids have relatively shorter and stouter forelimbs than most other paravians, and this may indicate that they somehow evolved convergently to big theropods. In any case,Andrea Cauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10855060597677361866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2156944512466583246.post-46523327651953561402019-01-04T03:07:50.763+01:002019-01-04T03:07:50.763+01:00Thanks. Makes perfect sense. Do you think tyrann...Thanks. Makes perfect sense. Do you think tyrannosaurids represent the extreme end of this evolutionary trajectory? Forelimbs reduced to very small size, but still capable of gripping (very large) prey.<br />How do you account for the long forelimbs of certain dromaeosaurs like Velociraptor?Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17837037454015036429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2156944512466583246.post-53974154900029484542019-01-03T07:01:15.237+01:002019-01-03T07:01:15.237+01:00Of course, and this is exactly what I meant in my ...Of course, and this is exactly what I meant in my interpretation of forelimb evolution in large theropods. The short and stout forelimbs of Saltriovenator, with their adaptations preventing dislocation of phalanges and allowing a more powerful flexion of fingers, are in fact explained as a dispatching organ, related to the evolution of more robust prey that is caught by the jaws, and killed by a Andrea Cauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10855060597677361866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2156944512466583246.post-84336697276361101922019-01-03T02:09:18.565+01:002019-01-03T02:09:18.565+01:00Nice work Andrea. Saltriovenator is a pivotal dis...Nice work Andrea. Saltriovenator is a pivotal discovery, elegantly described.<br />We know that Dilophosaurus forelimbs were not essential for predation in this theropod, because the forelimbs accumulated numerous injuries, and the predator survived. So it could hunt prey without functional forelimbs.<br />In general, theropod forelimbs were capable of very limited anterior (cranial) reach. SoTimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17837037454015036429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2156944512466583246.post-18382332043395581122018-12-29T12:56:37.466+01:002018-12-29T12:56:37.466+01:00Sì, intendevo «quei caratteri riguardanti i…», ins...Sì, intendevo «quei caratteri riguardanti i…», insomma, il fatto che fossero maggiormente sviluppati (quello che rende <i>Saltriovenator</i> "particolare"). Lo stesso soggetto del primo commento. Comunque, grazie per l'attenzione.<br /><br />G.C.T.<br /><br />P.S. Argh! Rileggendo ora mi sono accorto che la "h" di <i>Acrocanthosaurus</i> l'ho persa per strada… La Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2156944512466583246.post-55116770403172579842018-12-29T07:44:42.624+01:002018-12-29T07:44:42.624+01:00I processi flessori sono presenti in tutti i taxa ...I processi flessori sono presenti in tutti i taxa con dita non-vestigiali, ma con diversi gradi di sviluppo e forma.<br />La mensola flessoria è presente sia in Allosaurus che Acrocanthosaurus, ma non è sviluppata come in Saltriovenator.<br />Andrea Cauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10855060597677361866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2156944512466583246.post-71281755208242322972018-12-28T16:52:52.909+01:002018-12-28T16:52:52.909+01:00Grazie. Non capivo perché processi flessori e mens...Grazie. Non capivo perché processi flessori e mensola estensoria non si fossero conservati in, ad esempio, <i>Allosaurus</i> e <i>Acrocantosaurus</i> (ma se i loro antenati non li avevano…).<br /><br />G.C.T.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2156944512466583246.post-78321825213479292742018-12-28T13:45:00.794+01:002018-12-28T13:45:00.794+01:00Alcuni sono condizione ancestrale di Averostra (ma...Alcuni sono condizione ancestrale di Averostra (maggiori dimensioni, maggiore robustezza), altri sono presenti nei ceratosauri basali (processi flessori più sviluppati), altri sono specializzazioni di Saltriovenator (la mensola estensoria sviluppata). Questo ci dice che Saltriovenator è, contemporaneamente, la dimostrazione della radiazione adattativa degli averostri, ma anche una prima e Andrea Cauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10855060597677361866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2156944512466583246.post-43990113432812418032018-12-28T10:50:05.061+01:002018-12-28T10:50:05.061+01:00Scusa il disturbo, ho un paio di domande (forse an...Scusa il disturbo, ho un paio di domande (forse anche una terza…): questi caratteri possono rappresentare la condizione ancestrale di Averostra o sono propri di <i>Saltriovenator</i>? Si possono riconoscere in altri theropodi?<br /><br />G.C.T.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2156944512466583246.post-84100155823799661982018-12-28T06:43:46.396+01:002018-12-28T06:43:46.396+01:00Purtroppo, ti sei risposto da solo.Purtroppo, ti sei risposto da solo.Andrea Cauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10855060597677361866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2156944512466583246.post-13088777534854516952018-12-28T00:38:30.018+01:002018-12-28T00:38:30.018+01:00Speriamo che a Saltrio si trovi qualcos'altro,...Speriamo che a Saltrio si trovi qualcos'altro, anche se sarebbe forse troppo bello sperare che in un sedimento marino, formatosi a qualche km dalla costa, si possano trovare diversi animali terrestri...<br /><br />ValerioAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com